Debate recap: Trump, Poilievre were Liberal candidates' primary targets of attack

The four candidates campaigning to become Justin Trudeau’s replacement as Liberal leader and prime minister squared off on a Montreal stage on Tuesday night, for the last time before members cast their ballots.For two hours, Liberal leadership contenders Mary Carney, Chrystia Freeland, Karina Gould, and Frank Baylis sought to draw contrast with their opponents on policy, style, and track records.

The four candidates campaigning to become the next Liberal leader and prime minister debated their differing approaches to addressing Canadians' affordability concerns, from housing to healthcare. This exchange of ideas came after talk of how to deal with U.S. President Donald Trump dominated the first half of the debate.

Going head-to-head in the one and only English-language debate of the condensed campaign, CTVNews.ca provided real-time updates from a panel of political heavyweights.

Recap our live coverage as it happened.

10:05 p.m. EST: Trump and Poilievre

It’s interesting that Freeland and Carney made it through this debate without firing a single shot at each other. But for a few jabs by Gould at Carney, the primary targets of attacks tonight were Poilievre and Trump.

There wasn’t a single moment where the candidates connected to the everyday Canadian, and very little empathy for the challenges Canadians are facing.

There was so little ambition – even in a section about productivity, three candidates defended supply management instead of talking about jobs. And not once did crime come up.

Sad trombone.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

9:55 p.m. EST

Carney is offering a noticeably direct and specific answer to the question of how he would differ as prime minister from Trudeau. Wisely and unequivocally embracing the themes of change and outsider.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

9:54 p.m. EST: How are the candidates different? Some bite

We’ve made it to the final debate topic of the evening, how would they be different than Trudeau?

Freeland opts to drive right past that question and pick back up on the previous issue regarding Indigenous reconciliation. Gould follows suit. Says while there were mistakes, she’s proud of the Liberal record.

Baylis takes the question head-on, says he is the most different, as he was never a cabinet minister, would be more economically-focused.

Carney lays it right out. “I’m different in a few respects,” he says, citing the economy, vows to be “much more hands on,” and says he has the support of caucus and would dialogue with them more.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

9:50 p.m. EST

Some twisting in the wind from the candidates on the question of ‘how you are different from Justin Trudeau?’

Notice how Carney did not say the “T” word: “Trudeau,” when asked about how he is different?

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

9:43 p.m. EST

This question on the carbon tax is a giant bear trap. All these complicated, rushing-to-rationalize explanations should be left on this stage. They’re not going to help in the general election.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

9:36 p.m. EST: Carbon Tax

Carney claims the Carbon Tax has become “too divisive” for Canadians. It’s not divisive, it’s hated. Canadians have been quite clear; they aren’t divided about it. They definitely don’t want a Carbon Tax.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

9:33 p.m. EST: ‘Cuts cuts cuts’

Freeland keeps using the ‘cuts cuts cuts’ mantra. If you roll out the time machine, methinks that should be associated with Jean Chretien and the ‘cuts cuts - jobs jobs’ Liberal rallying cry of 1993.

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

9:28 p.m. EST: Freeland’s habit

Nearly every Freeland answer begins with this phrase: ‘I want to start by saying thank you to…[insert 4yo girl/farmer/healthcare worker met on the campaign trail here…]’.

It’s a conventional and often advisable communications device. But maybe not necessary for EVERY response.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

9:27 p.m. EST: Medical professionals

Carney on similar track to Freeland about federal role in licensure and certification of medical professionals. Only Gould starts with acknowledgment of provincial jurisdiction. She’d convene licensing boards and word co-operatively.

Baylis is the most interventionist: sees the feds deciding scope of practice for pharmacists and training nurse practitioners.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

9:22 p.m. EST: Housing

Following a deeply uninspired section about young people, candidates are pressed to outline their plans for housing.

Gould talking about the need to have bold ideas but doesn’t tell us what hers are. Freeland says she has a plan – but uses her time to attack Poilievre. Baylis urges young people to “start saving.” Thanks, Frank.

Carney finally talks about how to get more homes built.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

9:18 p.m. EST

Gould pushing for more ideas like those the Liberals put forward in 2015 as a way of getting young voters back into the Liberal fold.

Isn’t that why they’ve left?

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

9:15 p.m. EST

Freeland is back on 2015 Liberal talking points about the middle class. (And people working hard to join the middle class?)….

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

9:10 p.m. EST

Carney takes another swipe at Trudeau-Freeland record by reaching back to his successful work for Paul Martin, balancing budgets.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

9:07 p.m. EST

Gould has a laundry list of areas where she wants to spend, but if everything is a priority, do you really have any priorities?

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

9:03 p.m. EST

Carney showing a willingness to distance and distinguish himself from the Trudeau record. It triggered a bit of pushback (and the only funny moment of either debate so far). But that only helps Carney position himself as a dose of change.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

9:00 p.m. EST

Freeland trying her best to defend her (and Trudeau’s) record on the economy. Baylis talks tough about fiscal responsibility and increasing productivity and encouraging investments.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

8:59 p.m. EST: Freeland on defence

Freeland defending her record as finance minister. Hard to be an agent of change and to defend your record with a Trudeau government that was unpopular. Speaks to the difficult position she is in. Realistically a no-win scenario.

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

8:58 p.m. EST

Straight talk from Gould about the need to help people living in poverty.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

8:57 p.m. EST

Ding ding! A mention of former prime minister Paul Martin. Take a drink!

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:55 p.m. EST: Basic income

Carney is calling for more competition in grocery and broadband. Which is great, because Canada is basically 5 banks, 1 grocery store, and 3 telcos in a trench coat.

Meanwhile, Gould is “opening a path” to a basic income. But what does “opening a path” mean? You have “concepts of a plan”?

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:54 p.m. EST: Trade barriers

No hint in last night’s French débat that Freeland was going to ignore provincial jurisdiction. As prime minister of Canada she’s going to get rid of interprovincial trade barriers. Really? Feds taking over questions like professional certification from provinces? Hmmm, thought was a subset of provincial education powers.

Those barriers have to be the object of a concerted effort by Ottawa, together with the provinces and territories.

Gould has a laudable goal of a guaranteed annual income. Staking out progressive turf.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

8:52 p.m. EST: No surprises except Freeland

So far three of the four candidates are performing as expected and on point. Carney more focused on Poilievre. Gould as someone solid and likable running for next time. Baylis as a business person.

I wonder if Freeland will engage more - realistically - her level of support in the leadership will determine if she will remain a force in the Liberal Party. I expected her to perform in a manner that would make her more competitive with Carney. Maybe she is waiting for later in the debate. No surprises for me except Freeland.

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

8:51 p.m. EST: Poilievre again

Carney, once again, turns his cannon fire on Poilievre. Interesting contrast to last night when the Conservative leader was more or less missing.

Subtly, this tactic reaches around the likes of Freeland and Gould, signalling who he regards as his real opponent.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:49 p.m. EST: Carney weak on details

Carney is talking about big picture things like building homes and infrastructure, but provides no details.

Gould challenges that the question was about affordability and challenges Carney that this was the first time she had heard him talk about housing during his campaign.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:47 p.m. EST: Carney swings at Trudeau

Carney takes his first shot at Trudeau record, mentioning that 80% of our military spending was to American suppliers. Promises to boost spending and do it mostly in Canada.

Freeland and Gould say that their shorter timeline, 2027, to 2% GDP on military spending is better than Carney.’s 2030 target. Both Carney and Bayliss argue strongly that their 2027 target is unrealistic and reflects a lack of serious management ability.

- Tom Mulcair, former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst

8:45 p.m. EST A ‘genteel’ tone so far

Carney takes a shot at the Liberal government for “pushing money out the door” and spending defence dollars in the U.S. instead of Canada. Carney looks to build a Canadian defence infrastructure on cybersecurity, AI etc. Gould points to increasing the wages of Canadian Armed Forces personnel as an option to increase defense spending. Freeland speaks to the Trump threat to sovereignty. Baylis wants a Canadian DARPA - a gov’t agency for defence research.

In this Liberal leadership debate - the candidates “push back gently” have different ideas. Considering the bare knuckle brawling we have been seeing in the House of Commons -- this is very genteel. A couple times Carney takes genteel shots at Poilievre. In a sense the tone is very Canadian....very nice.

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

8:42 p.m. EST: ‘New World Order’

Gould is going to meet the NATO spend target by paying military personnel more and by appointing a Procurement Czar. Gould is again naming and differentiating from Carney. Freeland continues to make her opponent Trump, not anyone on the stage with her. Carney and Freeland now talking about a New World Order.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:39 p.m. EST

Freeland denounces the forces of technocratic and managerial inertia. Hmmm. Let’s just give that a minute to sit and steep.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:38 p.m. EST: Freeland isn’t challenging Carney

Carney calling for two new bases in Tuktoyaktuk and Iqaluit. He is calling for NATO spending targets to be achieved by 2030. He calls it a management issue and not just “pushing money out the door.”

Freeland is not challenging Carney, she is differing from him by targeting 2027 to meet the NATO spend, but she is framing all of her responses without acknowledging Carney. It’s an interesting approach.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:37 p.m. EST: Gould repeatedly questions Carney

Notable that Gould is the only candidate so far to try to land some jabs on her opponents, specifically perceived front runner Carney. She challenges him on what sectors he’d defend in the face of Trump’s tariffs, and then on his defence spending pledge.

The two leadership hopefuls are positioned next to each other on the debate stage so Gould just has to turn to the right to face Carney. There was talk heading into tonight that now that all contenders would be speaking in their first language, they’d be able to be a bit more pointed… while having to walk a fine line of not becoming the next Poilievre attack ad. Curious to see if others try their hand at it as the night goes on.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

8:35 p.m. EST: Carney in control

Carney looks remarkably more comfortable and in control tonight. The entire debate so far has been an invitation for him to showcase his skills and experience in confronting previous global crises – and thereby argue that he’s uniquely suited to take on Trump and the threat of tariffs.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:33 p.m. EST: Freeland mentions nukes

Freeland weirdly mentioned working with France and the U.K. because of their nuclear weapons, as if that’s going to be a deterrent for the U.S. – it’s unclear what she meant.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:32 p.m. EST: Retaliation, retaliation, retaliation

I think we are at a place where dollar for dollar retaliation is a consensus point for the Liberals.

Conservative Pierre Poilievre asserts he would do dollar for dollar retaliation. It is good to have a partisan consensus on something as important as the response to the U.S.

Big question is if the approach to the U.S. is similar between the Conservatives and the Liberals, how will Canadians decide who they want to form the next government?

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

8:29 p.m. EST: Strategies emerging

Baylis is going to defend dairy and softwood lumber, and work with Mexico to “call his bluff” in response to Trump. Freeland is going with dollar-for-dollar retaliation. Calls Trump’s tariffs “dumb.” Canada will be “smart.” 100% tariffs on Teslas. Wisconsin dairy and Florida orange juice.

Anything related to dairy, I read as a play for Quebec-based member votes.Gould wants Canadians to stop going to Florida and buying their orange juice.Carney agrees with Gould and Freeland, echoing their ideas. Adds that he wants to put the Americans on notice for our energy exports. And THEN he will call President Trump.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:27 p.m. EST: Trend lines

Interesting to watch the opening remarks and exchanges from all the leadership candidates. If you look at the trend line which is currently favouring the federal Liberals and the dramatic shift in the past four weeks you’d think there would be more energy both individually and collectively.

Hard to see that in the first 15 minutes. I think there is a general consensus between the candidates on Trump. Carney is playing to his strength on the economy. Freeland on her negotiation skills. Gould on her personal authenticity and empathy for Canadians. Baylis' strength as a businessperson.

- Nik Nanos, chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster

8:23 p.m. EST: Gould swings at Carney

Karina Gould with the first strong shot at Carney, challenging him to identify which sectors he would defend and which he wouldn’t. Carney does not directly answer this.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:22 p.m. EST: Disqualified Dhalla livestreaming her thoughts

Up until only a few days ago, there were five candidates vying for the top job. But on Friday, the Liberal Leadership Vote Committee disqualified former MP Ruby Dhalla, citing a series of rule violations. She denied wrongdoing and appealed the decision, but it was upheld by party officials on Monday.

Tuesday afternoon, Dhalla sent out a press release stating she would be taking part in a “live debate breakdown” with a TikToker, stating she had been “preparing for this debate since I first entered the leadership race,” and she “won’t be silenced.”

Dhalla said she would be “streaming to over 11 million viewers across social media.” As of 8:20 p.m. EST the TikTok livestream had just over 500 viewers.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

8:20 p.m. EST: Poilievre mentions

Already a clear difference from last night: it took Carney about 50 seconds to bring up Poilievre and tie him to Trump. Last night, in French, there wasn’t a lot of talk about Poilievre. Tonight, in English, it took no time to hear the Conservative leader’s name and to make the case against him.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:18 p.m. EST: A ‘weak start’

We are off to a weak start. Frank Baylis - Do not use the word “efficacious” – for any purpose. Eliminate this from your lexicon – no one knows what this means. It certainly has no business being in your opening remarks for the first opportunity most Canadians will have to hear from you.

Karina Gould loses points for reading her opening remarks, it does not instill confidence. But she was better-rehearsed for the first round. Freeland opened with a story about a little girl worried about Trump – not bad. She is sticking to her “tough negotiator” sales pitch.Carney appears well-rehearsed – a marked improvement from his abysmal launch.

- Melanie Paradis, president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner

8:15 p.m. EST: Carney, Gould land early lines on Trump, Poilievre

First question is about how each candidate would stand up for Canada against Trump and what makes them the best person? It elicits some strong comments.

To me, the two quotes that stood out the most were:

• Carney: “Who is the worst person to stand up to Donald Trump? It’s Pierre Poilievre. He worships the man.”
• Gould: “Men like Donald Trump have always underestimated leaders like me. But they underestimate me, and that’s their mistake. And I think as Canadians we know what that’s like.”

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

8:10 p.m. EST: Carney needs to connect with Canadians

As we kick off, I’ll be paying attention to one thing above all others: Carney. He’s almost certainly going to win this leadership. And there’s almost nothing he needs to do tonight in relation to the other Liberal candidate.

But he does need to connect with Canadians and confirm their curiosity in his candidacy. Will he use the stage tonight to kickstart the next general election and make the case he’s uniquely qualified to meet this moment – to confront the crisis that Trump poses to Canada? If he can, tonight will be a win. And not because he beat his Liberal opponents.

- Scott Reid, principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst

8:09 p.m. EST: Openings

To kick the evening off, all candidates delivered 90-second opening remarks, essentially introducing themselves to the country, specifically Liberal voters.

Baylis said he “knows how to build strong teams,” and Gould said she got into politics to “do good things for Canadians.”

Freeland focuses on Trump in her opening remarks, calling him “unleashed and empowered.”

Carney says he can bring “positive change,” and says he’s ready to stand up for Canada.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

8:03 p.m. EST: Greetings

Liberal Party of Canada leadership candidates Karina Gould, Frank Baylis, Chrystia Freeland and Mark Carney greet one another prior to the English-language Liberal Leadership debate.

7:57 p.m. EST: What are the rules?

I also took a spin through the party’s official rulebook ahead of tonight’s debate and I wanted to highlight some notable parameters.

• Participation: It’s mandatory. All contenders are required to take part in both in the pair of official debates and the post-debate scrums with media, or face penalties.
• Audience: There will be no studio audience for the debate, with the exception of accredited journalists, party staff, and other campaign officials.
• Staff: Are limited. Each contender can bring up to five campaign team members, one family member, and up to two additional individuals for hair and makeup to the sound stage, but not all can be in the main room when cameras start rolling.
• Props: Are not allowed. Candidates can only bring six pages of standard-size paper notes, a pen, and water with them on stage. Any other objects, as well as communication or electronic devices, are prohibited.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

7:48 p.m. EST: What will the candidates be talking about?

For two hours, the Liberal leadership contenders will seek to draw contrast with their opponents on four key issues chosen after a survey of registered Liberals and an assessment of current national polling.

Tonight, the themes are:

• “Canada’s place in the world,” which will include discussion of Canada-U.S. relations and work with other allies;
• “Growing a strong economy,” which will cover candidates’ ideas for job creation and economic growth;
• “Supporting Canadians,” which will include discussion of affordability, housing, safer communities, and stronger public health care; and
• “Climate action,” which will cover candidates’ ideas for protecting the environment and the country’s energy future.

On these topics and others, the candidates have been rolling out policy planks and pledges for the last few weeks as they’ve worked to drum up support among party faithful at rallies and other events across the country.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

7:40 p.m. EST: What’s the format?

As was the case last night, the order of who will be called to speak when, was chosen by a random draw. What’s different this time, is that they are all speaking their first language, which could mean more pointed jabs.

Each candidate will have 90 seconds to deliver an opening statement. First up will be Baylis, then Gould, then Freeland, then Carney.

As for the flow, some questions from the moderator, former journalist Hannah Thibedeau, will see candidates each have one minute to respond, while others will give the four a chance for a more free-flowing open debate, with a five-minute time limit.

The format is designed, the party says, to encourage “meaningful exchanges” between the candidates.

After the debate the candidates will deliver closing statements within the 90-second allotted time. First up will be Freeland, then Gould, then Baylis, and then once again Carney will be closing the night out.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

7:30 p.m. EST: Welcome to the only official English debate

Good evening and welcome to our live updates on the Liberal leadership English-language debate.

Former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney, former deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, former cabinet minister Karina Gould, and former MP Frank Baylis will be going head to head, at 8 p.m. EST in Montreal.

It is the second and last time all four candidates vying to become Canada’s next prime minister will face off and pitch themselves to party members, after yesterday’s French-language showdown. That debate went better for some contenders than others. Colleague Spencer Van Dyk has your full recap, here.

The stakes are high tonight for the leadership hopefuls to set themselves apart from their opponents, as Liberal party members can start casting advance ballots online – or where approved, by phone – as of Wednesday.

Stay tuned here for more from me on the format, topics, and rules around props before we see the candidates take the stage.

- Rachel Aiello, CTV News national correspondent

Live update participants tonight include:

• Rachel Aiello – national correspondent for CTV News.
• Scott Reid - principal and co-founder of Feschuk.Reid and CTV News political analyst.
• Tom Mulcair – former NDP leader and CTV News political analyst.
• Nik Nanos – chief data scientist and chair of Nanos Research and CTV News’ official pollster.
• Melanie Paradis – president of Texture Communications and a veteran Conservative campaigner; former deputy campaign director to Erin O’Toole.

For two hours, the Liberal leadership contenders will seek to draw contrast with their opponents on four key issues decided on following a survey of registered Liberals and an assessment of current national polling.

Tonight, the themes are:

• “Canada’s place in the world,” which will include discussion of Canada-U.S. relations and work with other allies;
• “Growing a strong economy,” which will cover candidates’ ideas for job creation and economic growth;
• “Supporting Canadians,” which will include discussion of affordability, housing, safer communities, and stronger public health care; and
• “Climate action,” which will cover candidates’ ideas for protecting the environment and the country’s energy future.

On these topics and others, the candidates have been rolling out policy planks and pledges for the last few weeks as they’ve worked to drum up support among party faithful at rallies and other events across the country.